i think france and great britain spend a fair amount on their defense. it would be useful if they spent more but i don't think that's the key to resolving this crisis. >> how far -- keep going. >> it would also be useful for the european union and individual european states to levy sanctions on russian leaders. russian leaders keep their money in europe. that would be a strong disincentive for aggression. >> on vladimir putin? >> yes. >> when he decides he's not going to send them all the natural gas, one-third of which they consume from russia, and they are paying through the nose and their economy still isn't recovered, why would they do that? >> that's a fair question. keep in mind if putin doesn't sell it to europe, he doesn't sell it. russia needs to sell it to europe as much as europe needs to buy it from russia. >> you think it's symbiotic enough that would never come to pass? >> i can't rule out putin playing a game but it's not something he can sustain. look what happened to the ruble today. >> it's gotten punished today and we've asked the ques